From Christian to Atheist
From Christian to Atheist is one man’s journey away from Faith and towards what he calls ‘the truth.’ This documentary is a very rough cut of a more ambitious future project. The director/star is looking for feedback and possible funding. Faith has become a larger issue with every president cycle and hot button issue. From gay marriage to gun registry, religion seems to always pop its head. The division of Church and State is a technicality, according to many.
David Broman is not a documentary maker or public figure. But he felt compelled to be heard. At DocumentaryStorm we support freedom of ideas.
Please review this work and give David some feedback.
NOTE FROM DOCUMENTARYSTORM: this is an amateur documentary and contains many provocative statements. The production value is also poor. We are allowing this documentary because of the themes raised and the room for a positive discussion among the community and among yourself and your own beliefs.
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Thousands of years History has proven, The Big Lie-Religion and the concept of a god is the key to War, Death, and Disaster…………But he loves you……..!
Very clear and heartfelt video in my opinion.. I like his no frills approach. And of course, he presents his matters soo clearly, that he reveals organised religion for the mockery it is. Let’s start believing in human beings, not human myths.
Thanks David, maybe you should add your source’s on the stats. Apart from that it worked for me!
Great Advice! Thanks!
This video is a reaction against Christian extremists. If christianity was not so extreme in the US, then people would not feel moved to infringe on other peoples beliefs. I am not a christan, but I do respect their right to believe as they do. Video’s like this dont and in that sense they do cross a boundary for me. But I do understand why people make them, they feel a need to stop the insanity. In Europe you dont have the extremists to this degree, few question evolution, yet people respect each others beliefs. Not that there are no exceptions to that but on the whole, its how it is. Please grow up America.
Thanks. I would appreciate if you could describe a particular slide or statement that was particularily disrespectful so I can change or remove it. Thank you.
Respecting people is a given in modern society; compassion and empathy is warranted, usually deserved, and necessary for us to live in relative peace… but respecting everyone’s beliefs? Why should I respect what someone chooses to believe, especially if that belief is illogical, and goes against established fact? Why should I respect someone’s refusal to live in reality and critically THINK about the belief system that circumstance dictated they be born into (usually)? How worthy can beliefs be of respect, anyway, if believers constantly need to demand that others respect them? No, absurd beliefs don’t warrant respect. PEOPLE warrant respect. Respecting you does not mean respecting your beliefs.
And respecting someone’s beliefs/right to believe does not mean they should be exempt from criticism.
‘People’ ARE their beliefs and actions. How can you separate that and say ‘People warrant respect’, while you (rightfully) have no respect for someone’s awful beliefs and/or actions?
It seems like a game of semantic phrasing.
If I want to suicide bomb you, how do you ‘respect me’, but not my beliefs and actions? I mean what does that look like? Say I’m flying towards your town and you can stop me with a missile…do you ‘respectfully’ blow me out of the sky, saving the town? ‘Cuz you’d have to stop the ‘person’ to stop the person’s murderous beliefs/actions.
Personally, if someone’s belief is to push for hate and murder, I have no respect for ‘that person’ because of those beliefs. I couldn’t pretend that I ‘love the sinner, hate the sin’. They’re intertwined.
I made no mention of people’s actions. Action and belief are NOT synonymous. To equate a yund earth creationist to a suicide bomber is ridiculous, but you already knew that. Your example was laughably extreme and very nearly completely unrelated to my point.
I respect human life and liberty, regardless of the beliefs of that human life (note: BELIEFS, not actions.) A human being is not part and parcel with their beliefs: minds constantly change. If I change my mind, do I cease to be me? A person is not their beliefs, unless they allow their beliefs to define them, which is often not the case in the secular society that I live in.
I’m not sure how that led to respecting suicide bombers. But I also don’t support capital punishment, so…
I think its the fact that the topic is being addressed at all is the problem. Others have done it and done it quite well, but even then its an attack on Christianity as a whole, and it does not look at the real problem. Most modern christians believe in love and goodness and have found a place for evolution in their beliefs and there is no harm in that. The real problem is extremism – and when you go to great lengths to poke holes in the bible and those holes are pretty easy to find, you are also telling people what to believe and are guilty of the exact same thing that extremist christians are guilty of, demanding that they think as you do. For those below – when people say ‘respect others beliefs’ they do in fact mean respect for people who have beliefs that are not necesarily your own. Again, I am not a christian.
Giving shelter to superstitious thinking will not produce good results for our society.
You are the authority on what will produce ‘good results’ and what those ‘good results’ look like?
Often what happens when people have an important personal revelation they feel compelled to go out and preach. Your mind set is very new and you should probably give it time to develop.
Go out in the world and learn how it is to live without the opressive doctrine of a fundamentalist religion, instead of creating your own doctrine. Then come back and tell us about that experience.
I’m quite positive that ‘David Broman’ was speaking in support of reason, not religion. That was a mix up on your part.
And he may not be that authority on what type of thinking benefits society, but statistics are: any rudimentary search will show that the most peaceful, stable countries in the world are the one that are largely secular.
I love this statement: “Any rudimentary search will show that the most peaceful, stable countries in the world are the one that are largely secular.” This is a clear and overwhelming fact that demolishes the Christian argument that their religion is needed for ethics. I may use that point in a future project. If you have any suggestions to improve my video, let me know. Davidjbroman@aol.com or search for me on Facebook. thx
Hi David Broman. I watch your short documentary, and I wish to offer to you another, far more logical alternative. (bear with me) Life only exists due to what science refers to as broken symmetry. (imperfection) example- if everything was good, how would you know it unless you had something bad to compare to it? Up/down, left/right, hot/cold, and yes even science/faith are merely extremes of potentiality. In this particular case, science and religion are opposite sides of the same coin, attempting to explain existance. Science(provable) and faith(unprovable) are not in conflict, and only become so when a person chooses to side with one extreme over the other. Galileo, Newton, Einstein, etc were all religious individuals with scientific curiosity, and none of them wrestled with this, because they understood this thinking is illogical, and it implies disparity where none exists. It is a good thing that you question the contradictions of the bible, but flip flopping from one extreme to the other(Christian to athiest) is only a reaction due to your religiously indoctrinated background. If you accepted that the universe(god) is not perfect, you would understand that attaching entities to extreme potentialities (god is good, the devil is bad) is precisley why you no longer have ‘faith’ in religion. (nor should you) Your faith, or spirituality is not the problem; the fact you accepted their version is. The greatest threat to humanity is the ignorance of bi-polar thinking. (this or that, never both) Your ex president George Bush Jr. had the same mentailty. (if you are not with us, you are against us) When you give up the idea that god(the universe) is perfect, you will realize that to be complete, you not only have to believe in both, but you have to accept that which is also in between. (everything) Furthermore, you will quit have unrealistic expectations regarding god, and realize that is precisley why we go through life’s experiences,(purpose) and pass on what we have learned to higher plains of existance, and intelligence. Just ask yourself this simple question: Does hot exist? If you believe it does, but deny the existance of cold, you can never evolve your spirit. Ultimately, the truth lies in everything, and not someone else’s limited polarized view.
By the way, Stalin killed millions (an athiest) so the idea that secular beliefs are any less dangerous than religious ones is only self dillusional. Whether it be religious, political, or corporate greed, they are all attempts at controlling the masses for personal gain. Besides, do you really believe that a smart blonde can never exist? there is much you can learn from the bible if you know where to look. Accepting it as ‘gospel’ is a choice (yours) that your thinking is now paying the price for. Since you have finally awoken from your dogmatic slumber, don’t toss out the morality that Jesus represented. (drove the moneychangers/goldsmiths out of the temple) This is why is he crucified a week later, not to die for your sins as most Christians are told.(he messed with the people who controlled money) It should be noted that this story is in 3 of the 4 gospels. In the gospel of John, he states it occurred several years later, but then his book wasn’t written until 100 years after Jesus’s death. Funny thing; now you have millions of right wing fundamentalists in your country that have claimed Christ as their own, like he was some sort of gun toting capitalist.(go figure) You see David, contradiction exists everywhere, and the pinnacle of morality is minimal hypocriscy, the greatest indicator of intelligence.
Let me close by stating that as with everything, evolution is undeniable (proven by human genome project) but if you think there really isn’t such a thing as intelligent design (not refering to the creationist version) then I can only say that it is time to use the eyes you were given, and ignore the stupidity of the world around you. I will leave you with this quote from the bible. “do not be conformed to the world, but be transformed by it!” Take care David, best wishes, and live long and prosper!
You and I agree that your philosophy is much better than that of American Christian fundamentalists, but I also think you having trouble completely letting go of all the bronze-age insanity. Maybe you’re afraid you’ll offend people…? You said “science and religion are opposite sides of the same coin, attempting to explain existance. Science(provable) and faith(unprovable) are not in conflict” To me, you’re just trying to be accommodating and give space for religion in our society. It’s like saying “Cars that work and cars that don’t work are opposite sides of the same coin– both equally valid”
Hi David. If the word religion gives you grief, than call it faith. The example I gave regarding science/religion is best understood by provable and unprovable.(they are by definition – opposites) When religion is confronted with proof that places it in contradiction with itself, then ‘faith’ in that ideal needs to be re-examined. (this is why I don’t support organized religion) There is a difference between faith, and blind faith. This doesn’t mean there isn’t validity in some of what a person can learn from different areas of faith.. (being told what is right and accepting it without question, or thinking it through for yourself) Heratic – from the greek meaning choice)
A good example is Albert Einstein. His ‘faith’ gave him great insight in understanding how the universe operates. The down side was his preconceptions about the nature of the universe(god if you like) prevented him from accepting quantum mechanics. “god doesn’t play dice with the universe”.(Neils Bohr – quit telling god what to do) In a sense, quantum mechanics is akin to ‘faith’ because there is no certainty in it, only probability. Yet, without it, we would not have lasers, scanners, computers, etc which all use quantum mechanical effects. Science could not have moved forward without this ‘leap of faith’. (no certainty)
Your anology of a working/non working car is also invalid because they are both still just cars, nothing opposite about them except their present functionality. You are using this as a justification for implying that science is completely right, and religion is completely wrong. (bi-polar thinking, and incorrect with certainty)
In the final analysis, it is up to you to ‘believe’ what you choose to believe. If you see no value in anything that any religion has offered, than that is what you will believe. Love, compassion, morality, etc are non tangible concepts that will never have scientific ‘proof’. This doesn’t mean they don’t exist.(this is the point I was trying to make in my last blog to you) This also doesn’t mean that people need organized religion to believe in these things, but it does require ‘faith’ that they do have value. Ultimately, believe what you want. I am not here to convert you to a religious doctrine, or convince you of anything. All I am trying to show you is the limited potential of thinking 1 dimensionally. Take care David, and live long and prosper!
While that makes for a good ‘line’, and is ‘technically’ true, ‘correlation’ and ‘causation’ are two different things. It’s easy to slip into the same kind of propagandist act that the Fundies take. Just make sure your points are really well founded and don’t just ‘sound clever’.
There are certainly many other factors beyond religion that make them inherently more peaceful than some other nations. Don’t fall into claiming (or implying) that religion is clearly the one and only reason. You’ll just hurt the cause when some Fundie schools you on the facts.
The ONLY reason there are lots of ‘modern, liberal’ Christians that believe in Evolution and understand that Genesis is not actually true in any way what-so-ever…is BECAUSE of rational people pushing exactly these messages on the Christians of bygone days.
And you’re just fooling yourself if you think ‘all’s well n’ good now though’.
44% of idiot Americans believe Genesis is actually true and reject evolution. They fight non-stop to damage the school system so they can’t teach it. Teach gloss over it so they don’t cause trouble -making more kids ignorant of what it is and the body of facts that support it.
Rejection of Gay rights is still rampant and the SOLE reason stems from religious belief. AIDS in Africa is helped by the Catholic Church rejecting condoms. That’s a literally horrific curse on humanity.
Telling people to believe things that are logical and rational and are facts based on evidence is NOT equal to the religious who are spreading lies and myths and detrimental fabrications.
By your own flawed logic, YOU can’t tell others here that we can’t tell others here what to believe, because that would be YOU telling people what to believe and how to act.
The plain truth is that we are all free to tell people what to do and how to act, but someone’s reasoning ought to be logical and sound and moral to have it be justified.
And you’d just make a pool of nonsense if you then said something like- ‘Well, who’s to say who’s right??’. You’d have to outright reject objective reason, evidence, the scientific method, etc…
Great job! Would also like to see your claims backed up with references. And the blonde joke makes you look ignorant. I recommend taking it out!
Thanks. I will. Not everyone is ok with this kind of humor, I guess.
Verry nicely done and I like your examples as they seem more effective to me than many that are offered by Dawkins and Hitchens……keep up your good work.
This is encouraging. Thank you :)
I think that this is an excellent rough cut. I would encourage you to take the focus off of Christianity and place it more squarely on the three Abrahamic faiths, as it more drives home the idea of atheism rather than just the anti-Christianity mantra that has been, in my opinion, overdone. As someone who was raised as an Orthodox Jew and became an atheist during college I can attest to the fact that a lot of what you say applies to Judaism (and Islam, from my understanding) and Judaism is filled with illogical, hateful justifications as well. If you would choose to go in that direction I would be willing to participate directly or connect you with people that are willing to. If you choose to focus solely on Christianity I understand that perspective as well.
I would take out the part about the starving child being an example of the nonexistence of a god, as that just seems to be the same logical fallacy as most religious people use. All of the three Western religions have well developed justifications for the reason a god would allow human suffering, so it’s not an angle that holds much value in terms of dissuading theists or arguing that there are no gods. If you haven’t read Weber’s “The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism” I would also recommend that because it offers extensive insight into how Christian belief is connected to values that may lead to exploitation and social isolation (kind of like the example with the child but more factually based).
I would also include a more extensive section on the terrible things that have happened because of the religion. The witch trials is a great example. I’m a sociologist and have personally researched the role that gender played in the witch trials and how religious doctrine was deliberately utilized as a justification for social beliefs that were only marginally connected to religion. Sadly, this is only one of many, many examples that I’m acquainted with.
In terms of production you need to appear on camera more and do interviews with other people. Many atheists feel strongly about their beliefs and will be able to discuss all of the information addressed in your documentary in an entertaining, engaging way (they’ll probably do it for free, too). Finding people with some kind of educational credential or extensive firsthand knowledge of a religion will also lend the credence that is needed for many of your (accurate) claims.
Are you familiar with Reddit? Posting this video in the atheism forum on that site might increase exposure and you might find some people that can help with editing or producing. This is the link to the site: http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/ If you consider posting there you may want to message the moderators beforehand about the video and your goals, but it is a very active forum that would provide you with the exposure that you need to generate feedback, support, and possibly funding.
Thx for your long and thoughtful response. In your research of religion, what do you think is the best modern example of how Christianity has a bad effect on society? I think I could add to this area. Another way to phrase it: How do you think society would be better without religion? I don’t wan’t my video to be a “downer”. I want it to be more inspirational. With what can we replace religion’s positive effect on pro-social behavior?
I agree with your advice regarding production. I just don’t have a good camera. I hope to find someone with a good camera who will help. I will try reddit. Thank you. You can find me on facebook or email me at Davidjbroman@aol.com.
I have very little knowledge of Judiasm or Islam, and these people make up only 2% of the US population– in contrast to 80% Christian. Youtube stats show my audience comes from the West.
I have to disagree w/ your comment about human suffering. This problem is the very reason that many people, including Bart Ehrman, bible scholar, leave Christianity. I’ve read C.S. Lewis “The Problem of Pain” and many other books and articles that discuss choice, the Fall, blah, blah, blah. There is no good reason to say that a little child deserves horendous suffering, and no reason why a good god would allow it. This is a compelling problem for many Christians that I’ve talked to.
I’m sorry I had to disagree w/ 2 of your major points, but I hope you can help answer some of my questions from my first paragraph. Again, thank you.
“-I have very little knowledge of Judiasm or Islam, and these people make
up only 2% of the US population– in contrast to 80% Christian.-”
This is a very weak excuse. Your film isn’t presented as a view of religion/atheism ‘In America’. You speak about all kinds of elements of religion that have happened/are still happening all around the globe. It’s a globally connected world. The ‘war on terror’ is actually America’s war against radical Islam. It’s very poor judgement to ignore most of Earth in a film like yours. Especially when Christianity itself isn’t uniquely American in any way.
To act like this is only for American Christians is pointlessly narrow-sighted, but if your point is to try to de-convert other American Christians who are just like you were…make sure that’s the clear focus of your presentation. So far, you didn’t do that at all.
I enjoyed your articulation David. However interesting your presentation is it does not prove that God does not exist though. Your presentation does prove the illogical thinking in our “holy” books. Your presentation gives some light on that but it is not enlightenment. I believe in God because we have a soul David. When we look in a mirror we have a light in our brain that allows us to know ourselves and do what is moral. We have a choice. We have free will. I believe a great, brave hero by the name of Jesus did rebel against a vicious, tyrannical authority (ROME) and Jesus taught great things in a time of great hardship and he may have even given evidence of his divinity through miracles. I do not believe everything in the bible and I do not believe the bible is relevant to the frenetic obtuseness of the 21st century but some good is still there to guide humanity. One must filter out the insanity within the bible. This is very true and very unfortunate that it was not edited properly over the centuries. In conclusion, “The Sermon the Mount” is one of the most poetic verses ever written and has inspired millions to have hope a better day will come David. If America would only read books again it would discover great literature that does make reference to the bible`s wonderful jewels within. It is a history book of gigantic proportions. I will always look for the divine David even in our jaded time of i-phones & HDTV and your video can never diminish that. I will always be a “rational optimist” in the world`s search for the numinous.
You don’t have a soul. You just ‘claim’ you have one. It was an ancient invention of fiction from a massively ignorant time.
You can claim you believe in ghosts or that you have a magical aura, or chakras, or body thetans, or demon possession, but these are all baseless ridiculous claims.
I can just ‘claim’ you owe me $50, but I’d have to ‘prove’ it. That’s how claims work. That’s how being logical and rational works.
You should read some books on the neuroscience and philosophy of the concept of ‘free will’. I suspect you never have. The arguments between Dan Dennett and Sam Harris on the issue are a great place to get better informed on what ‘free will’ does and doesn’t mean and if it even exists in the way you imagine that it does.
People who think Jesus was love, peace and forgiveness are sorely mistaken. The Bible says he told people to reject their family and
love him above all else. And that he was the psychotic, vengeful, murderous, bigoted God of the Old Testament. And that he’d come back within the lifetime of
those he was speaking to, bringing a sword, not an olive branch, to create his
kingdom. A Lord of Lords, or King of Kings is a Dictator, which is blatantly immoral.
He’s just a character in a book written long after he supposedly lived, with no contemporary evidence that he was a real person. The supernatural claims on him also show he was a myth. As does there being no record of ‘all the people’ who came back to life and walked into Jerusalem the moment Jesus died on the cross. That would have never been lost to history if a ton of zombies walked out of graves and strode back into town!! We have very good records of that area at that time in history. That nonsense never happened.
The points you make about weeding out the insanity in the bible are great. It’s just too bad you aren’t doing it yourself. It does prove though, that you aren’t getting your moral values from the Bible, since you need to ‘already have’ a set morality to ‘then’ pick and choose which ‘parts’ of the bible you think are moral or not.
This should lead you to a secular Humanism which has everything good about the Bible, far more good that the Bible leaves out, and none of the horrifically bad it leaves in.
You’re right in that the Bible’s popularity throughout western culture (forced on people in the Dark Ages under pain of death to reject it), makes it something people can read to better understand countless references in literature. BUT that doesn’t make it anything more than literature itself -same as the Iliad, or Shakespeare, or Moby Dick.
You said it’s “a history book of gigantic proportions”. This is total nonsense. The history it sets out from the dawn of the universe and man, through the exodus of the Jews in Egypt, to Noah’s ark killing all but a handful of people on Earth a few thousand years ago…is all complete anti-historical fiction made up by illiterate people who didn’t know anything about anything.
Also, you usage of nonsense words like ‘numinous’ and ‘enlightenment’ make you sound like con-artist Deppak Chopra. Unfortunately for humanity, abusing the poetry of language to make nonsense sound like something meaningful is one of the things religion does best.
Ah, another angry rant from the uber skeptic who believes himself to be nothing but rational in all things. Consider what else you happily take on faith. Perhaps you are a believer in the precepts of capitalism since our global social order works according to its principles. But one of the gross assumptions of capitalism (so far utterly unsubstantiated) is that people are rational when they make decisions. History is replete with evidence to the contrary, but since the system works, we happily accept it because it happens to be the linchpin of social order. Other examples abound.
You cast the religion as the oppressive force during the Dark Ages. What you fail to realize is that when the Roman Empire fell, the Church was the only unifying presence left to provide a sense of social order in the vacuum left behind – much the same way that capitalism does for us today. Your overly simplistic view of the role of the Church in medieval society reveals your lack of historical understanding. Perhaps some research might be in order.
Your treatment of Jesus is equally absurd. Most thinking individuals at least acknowledge that he was a moral teacher at the very least. Your reading of his statements is thin indeed and reveals a lack of basic literary understanding of that text. The writings of the Bible must be read from the inside out. In other words, you cannot judge its writings from a 21st century rational or historical perspective. It must be approached from the perspective of those who wrote it. Modern day Christians and their foes both fail miserably in this regard. Imagine that we miraculously achieve higher levels of social peace and gender equality in the future. Would people be correct in calling Martin Luther King, Jr. a barbaric misogynist because he had extramarital affairs? To do so would be shortsighted in light of what he meant to his own social place and time.
What disturbs me is when individuals who claim the mantle of rationalist try to make authoritative claims about things spiritual as well as when individuals from the religious community do the same for things scientific. Both are out of their element and end up sounding like fools when they speak.
If you would like to hear a good debate that touches on ground familiar to both religion and science, check out the one that took place between Richard Dawkins and Archbishop Rowan Williams that recently took place. It is both civilized and intelligent, and neither speaker gives way to the temptation of engaging in ad hominem attacks against the other.
The soul is m
You’re off your rocker, bro. What I wrote was neither angry, nor a rant. When you write things like, ” Consider what else you happily take on faith.” it first implies that I take anything at all on faith. I don’t. Faith is a belief not based on logic or reason or evidence. Faith should be rejected by anyone who can think.
Then you go on about capitalism which I never mentioned and doesn’t relate to anything I wrote -seemingly implying that I love Capitalism and think it’s perfect and had no inherently issue of ruthless greed that needs to be addressed with it’s implementation.
These are the ‘reasons’ you’re off your rocker.
I don’t have time to school you on the fall of the western Roman Empire and ~1000 years of Dark Age Europe under Christian dominated rule. The shortest point is that progress and knowledge were hindered, suppressed and controlled by a Theocracy that was regressive to Civilization. Secular science and Enlightenment values harkening back in key ways to the Roman republic broke us free of much of that.
I agree that most people think Jesus was a great moral teacher, but he wasn’t (not even in the ‘fictional character’ sense). People think that he was because they haven’t typically bothered actually reading the bible, or they pick and choose the nice bits. I mentioned some of the morally awful things he ‘said’, and what I wrote was 100% accurate, so calling that absurd is tragically ironic.
And there’s no reason to tell me not to read the bible from the perspective of the modern, rational person that I am. Yes, it was written by ancient ignorant people who made up different things for different reasons. That’s all perfectly clear to me. It’s you who doesn’t seem to understand that it’s all made up and that to think you have a soul is just a baseless, absurd claim.
“-What disturbs me is when individuals who claim the mantle of rationalist
try to make authoritative claims about things spiritual as well as when
individuals from the religious community do the same for things
scientific. Both are out of their element and end up sounding like
fools when they speak.-”
This is a good example of someone who doesn’t understand just how sound a foundation the rationalist stands on when they address something that’s been claimed without evidence, and how devoid of foundation the Theist is when they claim to have a soul, aura, chi, body thetans, can talk to ghosts, go to heaven or hell/purgatory, have ‘past lives’, can be demonically possessed, etc..
You are being irrational if you claim something you just do not actually know to be true.
Your capitalization in this passage is absurd. Check your grammar. I have a question. David, why did Sir Isaac Newton believe in God? Why was he buried in a church? Was he not one of the most massive, rational minds in history? Did he not start a tsunami of rational thought? Many great scientists and men of rationality believe in a higher being. Why?
Your capitalization in the above passage is absurd. Check your grammar. I have a question. David, why did Sir Isaac Newton believe in God? Why was he buried in a church? Was he not one of the most massive, rational minds in history? Did he not start a tsunami of rational thought? Many great scientists and men of rationality believe in a higher being. Why? Religion was a pillar of society for all in the last centuries. Why, David? Greater minds than you have followed the invisible; the intangible. Why? The morals and teachings of the bible and other religious books are needed more now than at any other time in history. We must weed out what is grossly wrong in these books and look at them through the eyes of a superstitious time. You are not the 21st century judge of the 3rd century. Your bias is with all things hard, viewable and tangible. You are wrong David and you will come to see the error of your ways.
David, why did Sir Isaac Newton believe in God? Why was he buried in a church? Was he not one of the most massive, rational minds in history? Did he not start a tsunami of rational thought? Many great scientists and men of rationality believe in a higher being. Why? Religion was a pillar of society for all in the last centuries. Why, David? Greater minds than you have followed the invisible; the intangible. Why? The morals and teachings of the Bible and other religious books are needed more now than at any other time in history. Great examples of peace and love are within. Yes, man has twisted these to fit his or her own end (just like you do) so we tread softly and cautiously. We must weed out what is grossly wrong in these books and look at them through the eyes of a superstitious time. You are NOT the 21st century judge of the 3rd century. Your bias is with all things hard, viewable and tangible. Do you believe Einstein would have made great discoveries with the unseen if he only believed in hard, viewable evidence? You are wrong David and you will come to see the error of your ways. And, why would an atheist capitalize the word bible when referring to it. Sounds a wee bit ironic.
Sir Isaac newton believed in God because it was normal in those days as most people did in England in the late C17/ early C18th, he tried to understand ‘Gods World’, you see it’s only in modern times that Religion has put itself against Science because now the Church can not burn you at the stake or murder your family if you disagree with them or the Bible so it has come up with Creationism etc which never existed before in History to the levels it is at now.
‘the Church was the only unifying presence left to provide a sense of social order in the vacuum left behind’
As History shows us from primary, secondary and tertiary sources it mostly ‘Unified’ by economic ‘sanctions’ or by force and a lot of bloodshed, rape and pillage and extermination of many peoples, languages, cultures and religions
People think the Crusades started against Islam, Historians know it started in the so called ‘Dark ages’ hundreds of years before,the term Dark ages itself is a Victorian invention and any serious Historian calls the Early Middle Ages as they were far from ‘Dark’.
You give very little sugar with your pronouncements. You are so obtuse and jaded. How did you get this way David? Stop writing your own interpretation of the bible and of other`s opinions. You are NOT an authority. You do not speak for me or any one else young mind. You can not prove we do not or have not had a God over us in history. You can not prove we do not have a soul. Every argument you have made here can be refuted. This is unoriginal and simply inexperienced angst against the history of this globe. My argument is that some of us still have CONSCIOUSNESS (we know we are alive and can choose between right and wrong) and a CONSCIENCE. The USA should remember to search for both QUALITIES again because of obtuse men of so little quality a great nation is once again circling the drain. You can state otherwise but you can not prove one way or the other. The bible surely is a history book of tumultuous, amazing events that will one day be proven if it is divine. Large segments of the bible are irrational. You, Sir are not divine. Your statements border on irrational due to the bitterness of your language. You are only another tired cynic writhing against your own nature. A saucy line will not get you far with me.
Don`t make statements about my belief system or my soul obtuse one. You mean your soul is too jaded & damaged to believe in something that is divine, numinous and invisible. If it was visible we would have your ilk (atheists) of the world doubting what is right in front of their faces as well I suspect. This is the lesson of the doubting Thomas within the scripture you reject completely. You don`t believe because you don`t have the maturity level to believe. One day you will mature and see the error of your ways. Now, it is time to repair the soul of one of the greatest nations ever to be conceived; the USA. I send out positive thoughts to people there to not give up and keep the faith through these hard times. These hard times will end with good deeds & actions based on good, generous people and do not doubt that. Period.
If you want an honest critique, I thought this was well-intentioned, but pretty lousy.
Your voice had a sleep-inducing blandness. Don’t sound like a used car salesman, but for christ’s sake put some life into it. And the presentation as a list of bullet points felt very out-dated in both style and concept.
As for the content, that was mostly all well and good, BUT the major flaw there is that I didn’t hear ANYthing that hadn’t been said before in better productions. All of it seemed like you were just presenting anecdotes and messages that you’ve seen yourself from other people.
And I know it’s tough, ‘cuz in 2012…pretty much everything that can be said about this has been said as far as the facts. Your only hope is in the ‘way’ that you present it, but your rough clip didn’t leave me with any hope in that regard.
If you want to make your own ‘athiest/anti-theist/anti-Christian/etc.’ video (and others are right, it’s misguided and narrow-sighted to single out Christianity over the Abrahamic religions altogether, or flawed logic/morals of Religion in general), you NEED to do something that hasn’t been done before. Some kind of new approach or angle. Your ‘own’ voice. Also, consider focusing on who your primary audience would be. It seems like you just meant this for ‘whoever/anybody’. That rarely works, even if in the end all diff types of people end up liking your work.
I would’ve suggest a more comedic angle, since most athiest stuff is dead serious and Bill Maher’s docu-comedy ‘Religious’ aimed at such low-hanging fruit (truck-stop, redneck pastors, Bibleland, etc.) and failed to even be funny, but your blonde joke and banker joke were both offensive only because they were truly awful jokes. Even your timing was stilted. The rule is that you can do ANY kind of joke you want…as long as it’s funny (watch George Carlin or Louis CK for very offensive, brilliant, insulting humor that often strikes at the logically impaired).
If you look at ‘The God Who Wasn’t There’ doc (and it’s clear you’ve seen it), I think, at best, an expanded and refined version of what you’ve done here would be little more than a basic copy of that barely passable work. And at least that had some narrative elements of the creator’s own voice.
Having read much of Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, Dennett books, seen many of their first rate presentations, speeches and debates (along with other ‘lower-ranking Horsemen’ doing much the same), all the excellent, dynamic educational videos by potholer54 (who, like you, lived in Japan for many years as a reporter), the outstanding (for this sort of work) writing, concept and production quality of clips by The Thinking Athiest…your work just doesn’t hold up, or add anything new.
I don’t even see hints at ‘what might be’ if you had a real budget to make an actual film. Like -‘This is where I’d be filming in front of the Mormon Temple if I had the budget, with a list scrolling down the screen showing all money they spent on trying to steer legislative bigotry against gay rights, etc.’, you can do that sort of per-production work right in your own home for free.
I’m sorry if this sounds harsh, but I seriously think you need to rethink what you’re doing this for? What’s the ‘unique message’ you have to tell? And try to make this your ‘own voice’ somehow. And if you can’t…just accept that others have already said what you want to say, and have said it better.
If you’re not trying to make money offa’ this, you might consider making your own film out of editing together the best bits of some of the afore mentioned work I noted above. Plunder YouTube.
If you really want it to be your own voice, you need to write some kind of genuine narrative that pulls the audience along. Bulletpoints won’t do it. This isn’t a powerpoint presentation for the office. Keep thinking ‘Is this interesting?’, ‘Is this compelling?’. ‘Does someone want to see how I wrap it all up at the end?’
On that note…that’s how I’ll wrap this all up at the end.
Hi… there are some points in your letter that I can use, but think of this: You are floating in a bubble with Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris, etc., far above the many Christian bubbles below. I’ve lived in a Christian bubble, and people in Christians bubbles generally don’t understand the vocabulary that Hitchens uses. They can’t get through big, scientific books like The God Delusion. They’re informed by youtube (not speeches and debates) and sit-coms and church. My video is different because it’s an attempt to reach teen-age level Christians. I went for the most clear points I could find (and some of them are points that I’ve never heard). You’re right that it lacks entertainment value. You can tell by the 2 video clips that I have, that I don’t have a good video camera. Some day I intend to buy or borrow a good one and improve. I need a teen to be the narrator, and I need more sights and sounds.. Mostly atheists watch my video. I’m not sure why they do because they already know about bible contradictions, etc. I’m trying to reach Christian teens before they become pastors and missionaries… before they marry Christians, etc. Any other constructive suggestions would be welcome.
I for one enjoyed this. dont get AZryans beef with you tho. As a former christian myself I have an interest in why people lose their faith. Of couse the reasons arent new to the comunity at large, but they are to new deconverts! Faith is such a dangerous thing and I for one will be glad when it becomes a fringe practice and reason truly rules.
cheers!
Thank You!!!
And… one more point to prove my previously stated “bubble” theory… Your idea for a segment showing that Mormons discriminate against gays would only make my mainstream Christian audience more accepting of Mormonism.
David, just about everything in your reply seems mixed-up, or flat-out wrong.
“my mainstream Christian audience”
“it’s an attempt to reach teen-age level Christians.”
“Mostly atheists watch my video. I’m not sure why- ”
You clearly don’t know the who, what, or why of your audience.
Atheists are going to watch atheist/anti-theist videos because they’re inherently interested in the general subject, tend to want to become better informed (often by new information on science, history, philosophy, politics, etc..), and are seeing what someone else’s particular angle is on it. They don’t know what’s in YOUR video, UNTIL they watch it. -Like I did…and then told you I saw nothing I hadn’t seen already and that you need to find your own voice.
You mentioned you had points in your video you’d never seen before, but didn’t say what even one of those were? I didn’t see any.thing new at all.
Sorry, but replacing yourself with a ‘teen’ narrator will not, in any meaningful way, make what you’ve written and put together, more appealing to teens. You obviously don’t know how to relate to teens, so you need to learn, or change your goal. Being rational means not lying to yourself. It’s why delusion (religious or otherwise) is so appealing to people who can’t handle being honest with themselves or face the facts.
Saying your video was ‘aimed at teens’ makes it more problematic than I first found it to be. And ‘no’, it’s not a fix to have a teen read what you wrote, or put in a cool pop soundtrack later on. You need to focus on the lack of a clear ‘message’ before any of that surface presentation stuff.
If ‘Anti-American, teen, Christian indoctrination’ is your point, do the research first that tells you how kids are being indoctrinated, the methods that appear to work best, which sorts of Christians snare the most teens, etc.. then strike the nail directly into those practices in what you present.
For example -the Mormons are excellent at this entrapment. Hell, for how lame they are, they’ve learned to appeal to teens better than you’ve managed so far. If that’s the sort of thing your point is to stop, then you need to do more to specifically turn the tables on their practices. Again, expanding your understanding of world religion and history would give you far better ammunition over the religious, narrow-sighted, closed-off view you wish to fight.
The overall concept of ‘It’s a Con!’ might be the best angle to use with teens. Go the ‘Don’t be a sucker! You’re being played!’ route with teens. They inherently hate systems of control and being lied to by adults. They’re also swayed more emotionally than rationally.
Research what specifically worked best for teens who’ve actually broken free of their childhood religions (lots of blogs out there of these sorts by teens/young adults). As you show in your video, it took until you were very much an adult for this to happen for you, so your own story/experience isn’t particularly useful in this regard.
Also, PLEASE stop saying that your cheap camera is a problem. No one has, or will, criticize you for not having a good camera. It honestly belongs at the VERY bottom of a long list of FAR greater priorities. Seriously, do not blame your camera for any of the ‘issues’ with your video. It’s just lying to yourself and/or an attempt to deflect the points people are ‘actually’ making.
The analogy of me ‘floating in a bubble with Dawkins, et al, far above whoever…’ also fails to make any sense? A ‘bubble’ implies a closed-off view, or lack of awareness. This is apt for the religious, based on a sliding scale of how just how fundamentalist and ignorant they are of the arguments against the nonsense they believe. The Amish, or polygamist cults would be some of the best examples of this in America. But people who are highly educated and well-informed don’t live in any such ‘bubbles’ (even when they’re Christian). You seem to use the word as if it means a ‘different point of view’, or a ‘particular group of peers’. ‘Bubble’ is never used that way.
Like many (most?) atheists, I’m atheist because I broke out of a childhood Christian ‘bubble’ and actually read the flaws/contradictions in the Bible, learned about the scientific method, logic/reason, learned about all the other ‘one, true, religions’ that exist and have existed in history. The result was ‘no longer being in a bubble’. For someone in a Freethinkers group, I don’t know how you manage to confuse this ‘bubble’ concept?
David B- “-And… one more point to prove my previously stated “bubble” theory…-”
You didn’t ‘have’ any ‘bubble theory’. You just said ‘I live in a bubble’. That’s ‘not’ a theory, or explanation, of anything.
David B- “-Your idea for a segment showing that Mormons discriminate against gays
would only make my mainstream Christian audience more accepting of
Mormonism.-”
First, I wasn’t telling you to DO a segment like that. Re-read what I wrote. I was giving you an example of ‘HOW to do a pre-production segment of something ‘that you can’t afford to do’, so people can at least hear your point and understand what it could be IF you had a real budget.
It was mostly to break down the ‘no budget’/’I need better camera’… excuses you make.
Second, just claiming that ‘mainstream Christians would be more accepting of Mormonism if you showed how Mormons discriminate against gays’ does NOT make that claim true, or ‘prove’ anything.
In fact, it’s so broadly stated that it’s obviously ‘false’. The fact is, that there are millions of liberal Christians who support gay rights, AND are ill-informed about what the Mormons believe, or do in the political realm. Logic says that to inform them of these facts would statistically guarantee that at least SOME of them would lower their opinion of Mormons. Also, polling data and reporting on things like Prop 8 in CA, and Romney’s struggle for acceptance with Christian Dems/Independents, prove this has already happened.
I have NO idea how you think the exact opposite, AND that it proves this ‘bubble theory’ you think you have??
You’ve actually mentioned your own ‘bubble’, in that you know little or nothing of world religions (and have dismissed those who said ‘you should’, to make your video less narrow-sighted, and your ‘There is no God’ argument far better and much more complete/valid). And please don’t use your ‘American, Christian teen audience’ claim as an excuse to ignore this point. Just because your target it narrow, doesn’t mean the information you present to them should be.
You wrote, the God Delusion is a “-big, scientific book-“, when it’s actually the exact opposite. It’s a mass-market, general audience book, hence it’s best-seller status far surpassing many of Dawkins’ other far less mainstream, much more academic works. Having done such ‘mainstream’ work is exactly WHY those famous atheists are so prominent in the media. Much of what they say is nothing new and they’re the first to freely admit that. Their point is mainly to make those old ideas ‘accessible to the masses’. And they have.
You wrote that ‘Christians are informed by youtube (not speeches and debates)-‘
It’s not real clear what how you meant that, but YouTube is probably the single best source for speeches and debates. But I agree…most people (Christian or otherwise) aren’t watching on YouTube or anywhere else.
But your own video on YouTube is exactly the sort of dry, ‘speech-like’, powerpoint presentation of the sort Christians (especially teenagers) won’t watch. And putting a teen on nice, new camera won’t fix that.
I find it a little ironic David, that someone trying to find logical flaws and errors in scripture tries to do so by using so many logical flaws and errors. To start with, since you claim you were once a Christian (even having the t-shirts to prove it), it is a little bit strange that you don’t seem to understand a simple thing such as the difference between INSPIRED text and DICTATED text.
A reasonably informed Christian would never quote isolated verses of scripture put them forth as though they were words coming directly from the mouth of God, and neither would he pull them out of context and arrange them in such a way as to make them “contradict” each other.
First you claim that you left Christianity for the sake of what you claim is “Truth > Faith” and then you go on to explain what you BELIEVE is truth. And to do this you distort scripture and missrepresent the beliefs of creationists. You show a complete lack of understanding of Jewish culture, language and translation issues and the use of both the Roman and Jewish time systems in use at the time the gospels were written.
If I were you I would at least inform all the people wasting their time viewing this video that you are not a scholar, but someone who copies and pastes stuff from the web.
In your post you say:
“…You show a
complete lack of understanding of Jewish culture, language….”
Why should an english-speaking American have to be familiar with
a LONG-DEAD and extinct language and culture to worship a god?
Isn’t this a kind of SLAVE MENTALITY….. do you have to lap the
crumbs off the floor after they have fallen from the tables of the masters as
the DOG you are?
Your statement proves the total cultural inferiority and
slavishness you have allowed yourself to fall into in the name of worshiping (licking
some crumbs) a god that does not speak your language or even cares about you
and calls you a DOG.
Read Mathew 15:21-28…..Matthew 10:5-6 ….and John 4:22 ….and
Romans 11:11-36
You are welcome to a your religion if you are happy to be a DOG
that licks crumbs of salvation that have fallen off the table of your MASTERS.
A god that requires
his worshipers to admit to the superiority of a race over another and to accept
it and to be destined to be forever DOGS to the masters and not understanding
the (dead) language or the (extinct) culture of the superior race of their
masters is not a god worthy of the title or of worship except by people who are
willing to ENSLAVE themselves heart and soul and accept their status as the LOWLY
DOGS of the DEIGNING MASTERS.
By following Jesus, we all become sons of Abraham. Meaning, we all become part of the chosen group of people that made a covenant with God. Read more of the Book of Exodus and how it relates to the teachings of Jesus and spare me the anti-semitic babble.
“Why should an english-speaking American have to be familiar with
a LONG-DEAD and extinct language and culture to worship a god?”
A scholar who has carefully STUDIED the “long-dead” language and the cultural issues involved is who I expect to be familiar with it. That would gives him the right to open his mouth. Sloppy people who just read the english and point out “contradictions” should just shut up.
Many of these points are made very well at whywontgodhealamputees.com (ask the next Jehovah’s witness that come to your door). A better approach to expose people to these concepts is through humor. I recommend MrDeity.com where you will find many hilarious video shorts by Brian Dalton (Mr. Deity), his assistant Larry, Jesse (Jesus, but Mr. Deity can’t remember his name), Lucy, his girlfriend (yes, Lucifer, the moral compass of the series) as well as an all star cast including cameos by celebrities from the freethinking world. They are on Youtube under Mr. Deity as well. Brian is on his way to becoming one too and is now giving presentations at atheist conventions around the world. mingling with Dawkins, Harris, Shermer, etc. Oh, and he has great SWAG for sale too. Remeber, MrDeity.com. And he’s not a jealous deity, so you can still worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster as a Pastafarian too.
This video could have been A LOT better.. you didnt back up your points effectively at all.. I am not a Christian and I understand why people choose not to deal with religion but if you’re going to make the argument, you need to back it up a little better. As far as the contradictions in the bible, those were small and petty. Bigger contradictions do exist and the ones you pointed out didn’t support anything. The idea of the video was good but it seemed like a poorly put together atheist rant.
David, why did Sir Isaac Newton believe in God? Why was he buried in a church? Was he not one of the most massive, rational minds in history? Did he not start a tsunami of rational thought? Many great scientists and men of rationality believe in a higher being. Why? Religion was a pillar of society for all in the last centuries. Why, David? Greater minds than you have followed the invisible; the intangible. Why? The morals and teachings of the Bible and other religious books are needed more now than at any other time in history. Great examples of peace and love are within. Yes, man has twisted these to fit his or her own end (just like you do) so we tread softly and cautiously. We must weed out what is grossly wrong in these books and look at them through the eyes of a superstitious time. You are NOT the 21st century judge of the 3rd century. Your bias is with all things hard, viewable and tangible. Do you believe Einstein would have made great discoveries with the unseen if he only believed in hard, viewable evidence? You are wrong David and you will come to see the error of your ways. And, why would an atheist capitalize the word bible when referring to it. Sounds a wee bit ironic.
I pretty much agree. We need to weed out what is wrong in the bible (and other books) and find things that inspire us to do good. Thx ~Dave p.s. Newton was also an alchemist, and Einstein did not believe in a personal god.
When formulating his theory of General Relativity, Einstein realized that his equation implied that the universe had a
beginning at a specific time. This observation seemed to imply that the
universe was created by a God, which Einstein did not agree with. His
reformulated his equations, inserting the “cosmological constant” to
account for the expansion of the universe. This allowed the equations to
describe the natural universe without being forced to concede the existence a God. Einstein did not believe in a personal God, and in fact
altered his original theory so that it did not require the assumption a
God, specifically because this did not agree with his scientific or religious views.
“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious
convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not
believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have
expressed it clearly.” -Albert Einstein, (Quote from, Albert Einstein, the Human Side, Pg 43)
Also, he is clearly referring to the Christian Bible in particular. This is a proper noun and thus would be capitalized. Perhaps you should check out your own misconceptions before trying to cut someone down based on theirs. Ass….
Newton wrote the principia. but he spent most of his time on alchemy, which has been totally replaced with chemistry. Einsten did not believe in a personal god. The great scientists of old did not know about genes, and did not have an established historical-critical method for analyzing the validity of ancient texts. With an open mind, do some more reading.
I believe that there is no such thing as god, or a soul, or ghosts whether they be holy or not… and I don’t have to prove anything to anybody!
Okay, I agree with most of it, but 9/11? Really? They didn’t hijack a plan and crash into a building because God told them to, they did it for political reasons. At best, religion might have helped them psych themselves up. We are not in a Holy War.
You don’t know what they believe. Do some reading.
Religion is nothing more than a fraud, emotionally, and often financially.
Religion has caused so many deaths through human history, and for what? to see who has the best imaginary friend!!! Try explaining god loves you, and it’s gods will, when someone you care about just got diagnosed with an incurable disease, or murdered. I cannot believe that for how advanced human thinking is, that we even consider that a god even exists, it’s ridiculous.
thanks :)
Human beings do away with religion = focusing on human world problems = exaltation of a specific virtue (i.e. “pure reason”) to rid the world of those problems= more problems than at the start.
Religion or not, problems will persist. You take one thing and place it on a throne in lieu of religion and boom, new problems set it. Examples: Nazis and eugenics. Eugenics was and is something seen as not entirely negative, but it becomes so worshipped and distorted to the point that it is no longer a positive thing for humanity. It gets so perverted that it spawns hardcore beliefs surrounding racial purity and “hard” scientific facts.See?
The Nazis were not reasoning ethicly. Germans were Catholics and felt that Jews were the worst apostates of all. We need to build a sustainable society in a humanistic way.
You seriously need a reality check and STOP talking about thing you don’t know ANYTHING about. Us northern Europeans have not been Catholics since ~1600, we are protestants.
And furthermore, this documentary is poorly done, there IS good reasons for being an atheist, but you have not mentioned one of them.
Try to study first and learn retorics!
Just because they weren’t reasoning ‘ethically’ doesn’t mean they weren’t reasoning. In fact, your use of the descriptor ‘ethical’ privileges your viewpoint, and verges on a No-True-Scotsman argument.
Awesome little presentation. Good to see someone seeing the light and not believing in the brainwashing that religion is.
The problem is we still allow the children to be brainwashed with this religious gobbledegook, some religions are worse than others (Islam comes to mind), I mean fancy letting children think it is OK for a fully grown hairy arsed man to have sex with a nine year old child? insane madness!
Is it any wonder that half the world is in total disarray when you have people who still believing in fairy tales running things.
It is however safe to say that Religion is the all time worst invention, that man has ever invented. Just look at the untold suffering, untold millions of deaths, torture and worst all in the name of one crackpot religion or another.
The sooner all the human race come to their senses and see religion for what it is, a crock of shit, the sooner the suffering and killing can stop…
Thanks :)
‘ some religions are worse than others (Islam
comes to mind), I mean fancy letting children think it is OK for a fully
grown hairy arsed man to have sex with a nine year old child? insane
madness!’
Christianity is just as bad as Islam just like the Aztec religion was they all have their time and Child prostitution and slavery is massive in Western countries numbering in their millions not just a few, also millions of ‘Western’ tourists go to Thailand each year for sex, at least 40% of prostitutes there are under age not to mention other countries.
Problem is most of these ‘civilized’ countries just pretend there is no problem.
The real problem is MEN, men and their disgusted inflated egos and WOMEN who are so dumb and stupid that let it happen before their eyes and accepted because they are too afraid to fight for what is right, and continue with the infested traditions of ” backward culture”. FEAR IS HUMANITY WORST ENEMY!
I enjoyed the doc, but I’m already an atheist. I do like to see cogent, well-reasoned arguments put forth (something I have a little trouble doing myself), and I think that really what this film needs is tighter editing, a better soundtrack (yeah, I know), and possibly more punchy graphics. I am picky that way.
Thanks :)
Atheists find redemption in their own self-conceited tirades. Anyone can make an argument with words which find their residing place in duality. Look within yourself and there you will find the truth of your being. Making an argument against religions will not help you beyond this life or even now. Keep trying.
I’m 15 and just told my mom I was an atheist. Shes been crying and says she’ll never be happy again!:/ I wish she would open her eyes and see religion for the fairy tail that it is instead of relying on some imaginary being to send her to “heaven”
Show her my video. Good luck with your mom. Be compassionate toward her but stay firm and strong :)
Hello I wanted to say that I am a devout christian. I enjoyed your documentary, I did not find it offensive at all. I was sad as I watched it because it was so easy to refute. I encourage you not to edit your documentary to prevent offending christians. This is america we have free speech even if it offends. The true Gospel is very offensive to most people. May you have a blessed day, and rest of your life.
Thx. I’ll try to have a good life until I burn in hell :)
I’m not defending religion, I’m defending manners-that was fairly rude to something that was a polite counter argument. Just a thought. Don’t want to make the rest of us look bad.
big up
I believe you missed Dave’s point which was to contrast the cheery ‘blessed day’ business with the fact that the poster commits to an ideology which asserts he will tortured forever because he disagrees with him. I personally find the two faced nature of religious beliefs despicable and completely understand Dave’s reaction to this kind of feigned saccharine sentiment.
there are no flames of fire in hell. the flames spoken of in the parable of the rich man are the flames[burns] of being wrong.
Who sits around on fire and thinks about a drink of water? their brothers? i’ve been burnt personally and the only thing i could think was pain! My subconscious was only thinking get away from the fire and find relief. I didn’t give a rat’s ass about anything else. Neither would you.
Hell is a place of separation with a view of where you could be from over a great gulf fixed. you will burn in hell but, it’s the hell of being separated until death and hell are cast into the lake of fire[rev21]. At which point you will cease to exist. Not burn for eternity. The burn and pain would be eternal however, God is even merciful to sinners and puts your light out.
Now that said, I didn’t watch your video. I’ve heard it all before. There’s nothing new under the sun. Man doesn’t have the answers, not in science ,not in any other religion or creed. The Bible makes perfect sense once you get saved and receive the Holy Spirit. You just never had it. If you had you would not be walking away. No one meets God and walks away. Not because, he would stop you but, because, he is so awesome. Even in pain and injustice. I learned a long time ago that all things truly work for good. I have had many tragedies in my life if, anyone has a reason to hate God it’s me. However, for every awful thing that has come my way it has ultimately brought better good to my life. I hate even admitting that sometimes because, God has allowed satan to disassemble my life in ways similar to Job. Even though those things improved my life the pain of enduring them haunts me. When I look deep I know they were the results of choices I made. Even if not directly.
You’re not special. You want wisdom you must earn it. God does not give you fish. He teaches you how to fish. That takes longer because, it puts the pressure on us to perform. If God gave it to you ,you would never appreciate it. Just as the difference between working for a check and being handed a check. Which one will you treat preciously?
He knows he made us.
Hi. I didn’t read your whole comment. Let me know when you’re finished watching my video, and then I’ll read your comment.
yeah seriously, what kind of closed minded person comments before they hear you speak? It would be like a girl at the bar stopping a guy who approaches her, saying i’ve heard it all before and no i will not sleep with you blah blah blah, just to realized the guy was going to tell her she dropped her credit card. dumb Bi**h
i don’t need to smell a turd to know it stinks. i’ve smelled enough of them to know without offending my senses. grow up you children.
How is NOT believing in fairy tales childish?
i will never watch that video. i told you. there is nothing new under the sun. there have been many thousands of atheists before you and you don’t have a lock on any atheist ideologies. I’m sorry I commented. Maybe you should just remove them so, you can be comfortable in your childishness.
there you go, mis-comma-ing again! to quote a film character — you can’t handle the truth! you are scared of being confronted by reason and logic, and having no adequate response. a closed mind is unable to progress, and an intransigent mind never learns. you are devo.
what a bunch of regurgitated rubbish. your “reasoning” lacks reason — the comment is so unintelligible that it’s not even wrong; it’s worse than that. and while you’re digesting this, try to learn the proper placement of commas. i’ve seen excessive comma-ing, but never excessive and misplaced comma-ing at the same time. it was deliberate, right? right?
I guess we will all just have to take it on your word that it is easily refuted since you don’t bother to refute it despite how easy said refutations apparently are.
your response is nothing more than confirmation bias. go ahead and refute. numbers, please.
Start refuting then. start with your first point. choose one and we’ll talk about it.
Brain washing… What if a God brainwashed the folk who wrote the Bible, and did so to such a degree that information, proving God’s existance, ended up encoded within the KJV Bible of today.
Wow…., that would be some God indeed….a God that sees across ALL space, and across ALL time. See http://www.outersecrets.com/real/biblecode2a.htm and see the proof that God does exist, that Jesus Christ does exist.
Good luck in your quest for truth.
Great documentary ~ I cringe at the word ‘God’ whenever I hear of children being beaten, raped and starved to death. Your presentation of the children of Africa is testament that the only help they will get is from other human beings.
One other comment ~ when a surgeon saves the life of your loved one, credit needs to be given to the man that spent years in studies to perfect his skills, that would one day save the life you hold so dear ~ give him the credit, not somebody you read about in a book! Thank you for sharing David!
Thank you.
This documentary is very good. It is told in a well organized, calm, and rational manner. The narrator’s well-modulated voice increases the viewabillity. I would like to make a couple of suggestions. Please get rid of the blonde joke. You would not put in an ethnic joke, I am sure. Think about varying the music. Although i agree with you 100 percent, I think that some conclusions leap a little too fast. Finally, the most help I, myself, would be able to give you would be to help you polish grammar and usage. That, more than anything else, would elevate your very good history and argument to excellence.
Thank you
thanx for the effort, i learned some new things, but i believe the film covered too many different aspects with limited elaboration on each. those who are already sciece literate will nod and confirm, but commoners will get confused, and as a result they may become inoculated to furthur reasoning. still, i hope to see whole lot more videos from you in future
Thanks :)
I believe in an immortal soul.
But I fail to see why a god should be a necessity for the existence of such a soul.
Faith is power.
Sure.
But only for the ones who want you to believe in an omnipotent being.
There is a lot of wealth in the Vatican while children over the world are dying from hunger.
Ever heared of a terrorist leader blowing himself apart whith a suicide bomb?
I love your documentary and I sincerely hope you find your producer.
Maybe a little prair?
Just kidding.
This is not my native language.
Therefore I hope my grammar is not to bad.
Much luck to you.
Thank you :) I hope you could understand my video :)
Really mature, you delete all negative comments! But thats OK, you WILL burn in hell
I can’t delete comments… It’s not like youtube
Good work. I hope you succeed in your endeavor.
Thanks :)
Call it what you want, even leave religion out of it – what we cannot deny is our existence. The inward exploration of this individual existence through earnest self observation and inquiry eventually leads to an awareness of that which is formless, objectless, whole – some call this God.
Overall a pretty good video. I thought the evolutionary argument was bold and well written. I particularly enjoyed the mention of coprophagy in rabbits which was worth a lol or two. However, I must agree with the lady below that the blonde joke hurt the video. Politically incorrect is great, but it needs to be funny and the blonde joke wasn’t funny, it was flat and obvious. I was also very impressed with the focus of the presenter on memes and his understanding of evolution as an algorithm which applies to any self replicating system with limited variation in a dynamic environment.
I only have two strong disagrees.
1: Like most Atheists you assume that because you have undermined an irrational and internally inconsistent dogmatic religion, that you have refuted the concept of God itself. As far as I can tell the sentience of the universe is still a matter of debate, especially in a scientific era when matter looks a lot more like thought than stuff and the cosmos looks a lot more like a neural net than empty space. Do not fool yourself into thinking that because you have refuted the vengeful deity of a bunch of primitive nomads, that you have refuted the idea of an aware universe.
2: Also like most Atheists you assume that the planet would be better off without religion, but not all people are at the same stage of cognitive development. Would you tear the training wheels off a toddler’s bike because she could ride faster without them? Religion gives a pseudoethical program of thinking to people not ready to think on their own, and if you want to find out what the consequences of removing it are then instead of comparing the poorest state in the US with one of the richest socialist countries in the world compare Spain before and after the Spanish Revolution, or Russia before and after it’s revolution. In history, the abrupt removal of religion from a society has usually ushered in a period of hysteria and blood shed, so calm down and let people grow beyond dogma at their own pace.
Great Doc, although I agree all religions are absolute non-sense, we need to take a look at the bigger picture. Most people with half a brain can decifer that all religions are just books written by deluded people in hard times. However no one can disprove the existence of a creator, or how we really got here. What started the big bang, if anything did start it. I personally believe the universe arose from nothing, because when you study biology, you realise that every living thing just works and falls into place, with no purpose. We humans want to believe we have a purpose, but this isn’t true. However this attitude may seem depressing, but if a universe can arise from nothing, and we have infinite nothingness, then there are infinite universes, for you to live over and over again. Reincarnation looked at from a scientific perspective my friends. :)
Anyway I really enjoyed the doc, keep up the good work !
Life over and over from a scientific perspective :) interesting
David I think your video is very well put together, easy to understand and has a lot of good points. It absolutely baffles me how so many people, for so long, have been so warped into believing so much codswhollop. I really hope you find a producer so that you can get your ideas out there as freedom of speech is so important. There are probably so many people who are forced into believing in certain religions, when really deep down they probably don’t believe it, and I think for them to see and hear this video would be very comforting for them, if they believe what you do too. Just knowing someone else believes it too could be really helpful.
I would be very interested to hear what you believe in now, for example what happens when our bodies die. That feels like almost a more personal question to ask compared to everything you say about your beliefs in your video so I understand if you don’t want to share it but I would like to hear.Cheers – I’m glad someone is out there putting together these facts which are so blatant but noone seems to want to say.
Hi David,
I am a lifelong atheist & I thoroughly enjoyed your documentary. As regards the comments from the religous , I find that believers are like addicts, they will always find an excuse for their delusion / habit. Religion is poison Athiesm is freedom.
I think this documentary has some solid arguments at its core. It obviously needs better production, etc.
I think more of a focus on who you are and you as a person will improve the documentary.
I didn’t like your two jokes. They’re funny but the detract from your argument.
Good luck!
I agree. The two jokes were distractions and in poor taste.
Your arguments were sound. The production is nonexistent though. There’s no design quality. I would recommend learning more about design and technology so that you can present your ideas in a more visuallappealing way, since you’ve decided to use a visual medium. Otherwise, consider writing a blog or book.
*visually appealing
Thank you mister. Nice movie
Thanks :)
Good man. Atheists of the world need to stand up in this crazy time of religion fuelled war and crazy prophecies etc. Good on you
Thank you
You’re a good guy man. Keep up the good work!
Thx :)
This doc is easily refuted. The next two verses in Matthew explain that the money given to Judas was used to buy the field , Judas was most likely hung on a tree near the edge of a high cliff where the rope or branch broke , causing his body to fall head first causing major injuries to his body . The third hour in ancient times was 6am to 9am , and the sixth hour was 9am to noon. So if someone refers to 9am , it can literally be called either the third or sixth hour. NO CONTRADICTION .
Are you saying that the priests bought the field? Not Judas? Read it again.
Keep in mind that these gospels have been pruned and edited to try and streamline them into a common (fictional) narrative. In other extant gospels, Judas was killed in a revolt against Roman landgrabbers, Judas left for india to follow Thomas, and Judas lived and moved to Rome. Interestingly enough, Paul’s frst gospel mentions neither Judas’ name nor his manner of death. It’s clearly a late addition.
If you want some idea of how easy it is for superstitious christians to edit or change their own narrative, just look at Joseph’s father Heli (whose name was originally Hell) and Gideon (whose name was originally Jeru-Baal).
Excellent “evidence-based video.” So easy to understand. I will start showing it to teenagers
This comment makes me feel like my difficult journey has been worth it. thx
I am a preacher’s daughter. I have been searching all my life – over 60 years – to figure out how my upbringing can possibly be valid. I have found that the only faith I have is in my own intelligence and good judgment. Sometimes i fail, but I always learn. Thanks for your insight and plain approach.
You sometimes fail, but always learn. There must have been something quite “valid” in your upbringing :)
David, I appreciate your project even though I am a believing Christian. I think it is important to have these types of questions made and someone should take the time to answer them. I personally have these questions in my mind as well and hope that someday they will be answered. I think it is ridiculous for Christians to blindly believe in something without questioning those contradictory messages. My hope is that in due time I will have the answers, hopefully directly by God, as many out there claim to have had personal, supernatural experiences. Setting aside the potential that those individuals may also be deceitful, I do have a question for you. I have noticed that many atheists, both those that have never believed in God and those who at one point in time did believe, never address one particular aspect of faith – the devil’s side. Do you plan to address this in your documentary as it evolves? From what I understand, there are documented, proven cases where supernatural “evil powers” have manifested themselves in the lives of people around the world. Whether it’s through poltergeist-like events, spirit possessions, haunted homes, or other unexplained phenomenon, these things have occurred. How then is that explained? And why is it that atheists never address this (at least to my knowledge). Like you, I am interested in truth. So I feel that in order to discard one aspect of faith, the other also has to be debunked, if in fact it can. I’m just curious as to what your thoughts are on this and whether you have considered this in the making of your documentary. Thanks.
David, I appreciate your project even though I am a believing Christian.
I think it is important to have these types of questions made and
someone should take the time to answer them. I personally have these
questions in my mind as well and hope that someday they will be
answered. I think it is ridiculous for Christians to blindly believe in
something without questioning those contradictory messages. My hope is
that in due time I will have the answers, hopefully directly by God, as
many out there claim to have had personal, supernatural experiences.
Setting aside the potential that those individuals may also be
deceitful, I do have a question for you. I have noticed that many
atheists, both those that have never believed in God and those who at
one point in time did believe, never address one particular aspect of
faith – the devil’s side. Do you plan to address this in your
documentary as it evolves? From what I understand, there are documented,
proven cases where supernatural “evil powers” have manifested
themselves in the lives of people around the world. Whether it’s through
poltergeist-like events, spirit possessions, haunted homes, or other
unexplained phenomenon, these things have occurred. How then is that
explained? And why is it that atheists never address this (at least to
my knowledge). Like you, I am interested in truth. So I feel that in
order to discard one aspect of faith, the other also has to be debunked,
if in fact it can. I’m just curious as to what your thoughts are on
this and whether you have considered this in the making of your
documentary. Thanks.
Very very good little video. Hit on a lot of key points that should be obvious to rational person. keep up the good work! Look forward to what you may come out with in the future.
Pretty good presentation on the subject.
God is a Myth that doesn’t exist! Pass the Collection Plate. Its the biggest, longest Scam known to man. Pass the Collection Plate. Scammers target the vulnerable. Billions of people still continue to pay and believe these Scammers for there False Hopes because for them its easier to Live a Lie, than to understand the true meaning of the Bible and what it was meant for. Jesus died from changing it, he was set to make millions, so please pass the collection plate, all Churches and Religions are raking in billions from this scam. I was brainwashed, saw the light and got out. Beware!
Even though i agree with the main point, there are countless flaws in
your so called “evidence”. If you are going to discard religion as something truly unworthy to be present in our society, at least do it right. You said you were very involved, and yet you still obviously didn’t learn anything about christianity. And now you simply turned to atheism which is even more ridiculous for countless reasons (scientific reasons). Evolution suggests that from chemical mixture some how live appeared (the big bang). Can you manufacture life from anything that is not alive – I don’t think so. Please research your evidence in more details because otherwise they are going to come back and bite you from behind ;)
Hello, I haven’t read any of the comments below, and I don’t know what the popular arguments are about your video. I am an atheist/agnostic, I am only interested in strengthening the arguments that fortify a logical approach…..nothing else.
I thoroughly enjoyed your video and watched the whole thing. My only complaint is regarding the “contradiction” section near the beginning…..I can only encourage you to revisit those examples to try to avoid sparking “syntax” debates, the debates based on principle are MUCH more compelling, and I believe it’s important (very important) to avoid “word games”…..the only hope for truth to shine is for logical debate to take its place above “double talk” as a better path to follow.
I feel your pain as one who has had to leave MUCH behind in order to follow truth as best as it has ever presented itself to me……that meant friends left behind, family members too……although many believers FEAR it…….few of them experience HOW DIFFICULT it is to REALLY detatch themselves, and lose friends, family members, status, etc……..all in the name of trying to understand God……………even if it leads to it’s/his/her abandonment……..it’s hard…..it’s so hard……and I rarely (if ever) hear a sympathetic ear for the Atheist who wants to share FREEDOM, freedom from illogical fear and irrational morality.
Again, I loved the presentation, but encourage you to revisit the beginning, if only to avoid “shooting yourself in the leg” before you’ve made a significant impression.
With love,
Cameron
Bravo!
Respect from Croatia, from Neven Valand, a Deist / Humanist.
Great film!
.
Congratulations! You have uncovered the myth of false religions. The god of men’s imagination is poor excuse for a god. However you give a grand unashamed view of your lack of intelligence, understanding, and deductive reasoning concerning the Bible. It’s very much like listening to a 4 year old try to explain algebra. False Christianity has this same mentality. God reveals himself to “the few”. Many are called but few are chosen. To them he reveals truth. Man is blind, ignorant, selfish, greedy, and proud of it. It doesn’t take science or religion to see that, It’s a fact. (Fact = Truth). Man attempts to create his own “truth” ie. “There is no God” so that he can establish his own belief system and declare what he thinks is “right” or his own righteousness. He makes himself god. The word means “to judge”. Man has judged himself innocent in his own corruption and made a doctrine of his own opinion. Peace is not for the world, only for the believers, because they believe in TRUTH.
Fantastic because you cram so many great points into a nice short film.
David, i don’t think your documentary needs any sprucing up. it’s perfectly understandable, no frills needed, with adequate production values. it sure served its purpose with me, but i’ve been an atheist my entire life, so you were “preaching to the choir.” lol
if it’s really that simple, make your choice between A & B , Go to heaven or go to hell, OR, there’s no heaven, no body is going to hell…hmmm…statistically speaking, I would rather err on the side of going to heaven/not going to hell…50/50 is just TOO big of a risk, therefore the people who choose to err on that side are not really that un-intelligent are they?
The Title – Not believing in God based on the bible and religion is as irrational as believing in God based on a book.
Why do atheists pat each other on the back and try and link atheism with intelligence?
If you have any clue at all and understand even the most basic Epistemology then you understand you can’t be certain of virtually anything – So to say you know God doesn’t exist is as idiotic as saying you know God exists.
Einsteins view of God was pantheistic – i.e. Not a personal deity but a just a massive emergent being and as it grew created things like animals that eat each other, disease, maggots and the laws of physics including those we are not aware of.
The bible and religion are do not present the only possible view of God. Once again – Atheists who say they know God doesn’t exist are just as irrational as religious fanatics. This is only my opinion though…
the narration is good, but the music is awful. please change to less religiously-oriented music, and turn the volume way down on the music. the arguments are also good, from a xtian-to-atheist standpoint. it does get boring to have to read bible verses, for whatever reason, since that book is so terribly written. i’d rather read quotes from Austen, Eliot, Shakespeare, or the myriad Western — and Eastern — authors of mentally stimulating tomes that excite, not dull, the mind. “It is a truth, universally acknowledged,” said Jane Austen so humorously; the bible has no humor in it, and thus cannot take itself seriously. nor should we. thanks for your efforts.
wtf was that about “an intelligent blonde – there’s no such creature”. I was gonna share this video!! :(
Nice peace of research . I too looking to become an atheist and searching for food stuff like this. But as of now iam not convinced fully to this line…..